Professor Oserhemen Osunbor is a household name in Edo politics. He is regarded as one of the best brains in law in Nigeria. Since he delved into politics in 1999, Professor Osunbor has remained relevant and has occupied various elective and appointive positions. He represented Edo Central in the Nigerian Senate between 1999 and 2007. He was elected as governor of Edo State in 2007 after which he was removed by the election petition tribunal in 2008. Since his exit from office, he has served in various boards and agencies, among which is the Nigerian Law Reforms Commission.
In this interview with FRED ITUA in Abuja, the Professor of Law opened up on a number of issues. He explained how his frosty relationship with Chief Tony Anenih led to his recent defection from the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) to the All Progressives Congress (APC) where he now serves as a member of the party’s Board of Trustees (BoT). He equally has other reasons he left the PDP. Professor Osunbor spoke briefly on expectations from Nigerians from the incoming government, the constitution review logjam, anti-corruption war, among others.
Excerpts:
What’s your take on the recent general elections?
The 2015 general elections have been adjudged to be free, fair and credible. There was less violence recorded in the 2015 elections than in the 2011 elections. The elections were adjudged to have been successful both by local and international observers. The 2015 elections appear to me more successful than the 2011 elections, which is why Mr. President readily conceded defeat. Incidents of rigging and inflation of votes were also less. Hence, the total number of votes recorded in 2015 were lesser than those recorded in 2011. I agree that there are challenges that need to be addressed by INEC as it prepares for the next elections. That has to do with the use of card readers and voters’ cards. The shortcomings in the card readers have been exposed, particularly the use of incidence forms. I think that using forms in the last elections has opened windows for rigging and manipulation. These have to be addressed in the future and if possible, dispense the use of incidence forms. INEC should perfect the system whereby card readers can be used to authenticate voters. I want to see a situation where the card readers can have a tally with the total number of votes it accredited and the total number of readers. When you are using incidence forms side by side, you cannot know the number of accredited voters. That opens the window for rigging and manipulation. I want to see the incidence of under-aged voters addressed. Under-aged voting in my view, casts a slug on the integrity of our electoral system and must be addressed and stopped by INEC in future elections.
What are your expectations from the incoming government of General Muhammadu Buhari?
What I can say is that, APC manifesto has set out the problems of this country and how the incoming government intends to tackle them. I have no better agenda of my own to propose to the party, especially with people like the incoming President, General Buhari in charge and assisted by Professor Yemi Osinbajo. He is a man I know to be very thorough. The government will be guided by a great man of repute, Chief Odigie Oyegun. Of course, we have the national leader of the party, Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu, a man of vast experience. With those people guiding the process and other personalities involved, I am sure APC administration will be able to address the concerns of Nigerians. They have articulated these concerns clearly. What remains is to translate their own proposals for tackling these problems into action.
Given the realities, do you think General Buhari can meet the expectations of Nigerians within a short space of time?
My answer is that, governance is a continuous process. I do not imagine that any government, whether in Nigeria or in any part of the world can address all the concerns of the electorate. It cannot happen. By nature, human beings are never satisfied. They are prone to ask for more. As much as it is practicable, they know that the expectations are very high. But with the antecedents of the personalities I have mentioned, the APC government will be able to address the concerns of Nigerians.
Do you intend to run for the governorship seat in Edo State in 2016? How do you intend to navigate through the web of godfathers to get what you want?
Well, let me say that the political class you talked about is the PDP political class which was completely not interested in the progress of the people. That is why they have suffered the crushing defeat they have suffered. But the APC leadership is very different. That is one of the reasons I bade the PDP goodbye. I saw that they were only interested in their pockets. They were not interested in the wellbeing of their people. They were not interested in developing Edo State or Nigeria, but were after what they can get. To address your question more directly as to my possible governorship aspiration, what I can say with all sincerity is that my preoccupation is assimilation within the various levels of my new party, APC. My immediate concern is to be a good member of the party and work for its progress at every level. That includes working for the success of the government at the federal and state levels. Thereafter, we can ask for the party’s support for any aspirations, including aspiring for the governorship ticket of 2016. What the people are saying is correct. I also hear this from many people. It is the party that decides who flies its ticket, not the voters. APC is a party that shops for a winning candidate. APC does not sell its ticket. I am not aware that any candidate sells its ticket to any governorship candidate. APC will look for a winning candidate in 2016 and give him the ticket. As I say, my preoccupation is to join hands with other leaders to make APC government a success.
It appears APC is still very weak in your senatorial district, Edo Central. Going forward, how do you intend to strengthen the party?
First of all, APC is not as weak in Edo Central as it used to be. In the 2011 general elections, PDP won five out of the six House of Assembly seats. Now, the six seats have been shared equally. Even the success of PDP in Edo Central during the elections was helped a great deal by money made from Ministry of Works and National Ports Authority (NPA). Hopefully in the future, those sources of funding will not be there. The powers that they used to derive from Abuja to make themselves relevant in Edo Central will not be there anymore. They should see the handwriting on the wall that the end has come for PDP in Edo Central senatorial district and indeed in Edo state and Nigeria as a whole. Things will change for them unless they are able to change the current crop of leadership and put in place leaders that have the interest of the ordinary people in mind. They do not need mercenaries as leaders. Not people who know only themselves and their pockets. I used to tell the previous leadership, both in discussion and in writing, that until they change the leadership of PDP in Edo state and to some extent, Nigeria, PDP was doomed to fail. They did not listen to me. Now, they have reaped the rewards.
Many Edo people believe that your exit from the PDP was as a result of your inability to reconcile with Chief Tony Anenih. Can you give credence to this claim?
Well, there are a number of reasons I left the party. Maybe I should address those ones first. For me to take such a major decision, you cannot just narrow it down to one reason. One of the reasons was that, most PDP leaders, I came to realise, were not concerned about the wellbeing of the people, but saw the party as a vehicle for making money and pleasing no one else, but themselves. They are very selfish and self-centred people. The other reason is that, PDP leaders who destroyed the party in their states were rewarded with good board chairmanship and other government positions. Whereas, those who genuinely worked for the party were unrecognised and unrewarded. A party that works like that is bound to fail. Some PDP leaders exhibited extreme wickedness, extreme vindictiveness and behaved as if they were God. They failed to realise that only one thing is constant in life and that is change. I saw the good attributes of APC leaders and the desirability and indeed inevitability of the change they promised Nigerians. I decided to embrace it. My decision was to formally declare for APC was helped by the fact that those who regard PDP as their personal property in Edo state and destroyed the party through politics of exclusion were determined to make me politically irrelevant in PDP. That was particularly obvious during the 2015 general elections. They threatened PDP members never to visit or associate with me. They never invited me to any meeting. The result was that no PDP candidate ever visited me to seek my votes or support. On the contrary, all the APC aspirants and later candidates, recognised my worth and sought my support and vote. I had no choice but to throw my weight behind them. Thereafter, there was no looking back on PDP. I refused to allow another human being to determine my destiny. PDP never respected me as a former governor or recognised my contribution to nation building. In contrast, APC has shown me recognition and respect. I am happy to inform you that I am now a proud member of its Board of Trustees (BoT). The recognition and respect the PDP failed to show me, APC is willing to show me. Because of arrogance and bad leadership among its fold, PDP power has now become PDP powerless.
Many believe that Chief Anenih played a key role in your removal from office as governor of Edo State in 2008. Was your defection to APC as a result of your inability to amend the frosty relationship with him?
To a large extent, yes. First of all, Chief Anenih did not start removing governors from Edo with me. He started it with the late Professor Ambrose Alli. He used to boast about it that he removed Alli. As you said, he has also boasted that he removed me from office as governor. I leave you to judge what kind of human being is that. I used to be very close to him while I was in the Senate and even in the early period while I was the governor. He told me one on one that he never forgives people. So, as you insinuated in your question, it is his inability to forgive and forget…I do not know the offence I committed that he could not forgive me. I leave him to his God. He is not my God.
What is your take on the veto of the constitution by President Goodluck Jonathan?
First of all, my view is that it was very wrong for a Federal High Court to have decided that constitution amendment requires presidential assent. I have always taken the views that the amendment of the constitution involves not just the National Assembly, but the House of Assembly of the states. The president of Nigeria has no power to assent to any work that involves the Houses of Assembly. Section 9 of the constitution sets out how the constitution will be amended. It did not say anything about presidential assent. But as a consequence of the decision of the Federal High Court in Lagos and in the interest of peace and progress, the National Assembly submitted the amendment to the president for assent. In my opinion, it was very unnecessary. I have not seen a copy of the current amendment. But what I have read in the papers is that the constitution requires two third majority of the two chambers of the National Assembly. For some purposes, it requires four-fifth majority of the Senate and the House of Representatives for some purposes. From what I have read in the papers, it will appear that in passing the recent amendments, they did not take into cognisance the difference between these two. If it involves an amendment or alteration of the Section that deals with the creation of new states and boundary adjustment, you require four-fifth majority of each of the two chambers. If you are carrying out alteration of Section 9 which is the procedure for amending the constitution, a four-fifth and not two-third majority is required. If you are dealing with the Fundamental Human Rights provisions, you need more than a two-third and that is four-fifth majority. If the National Assembly only got two-third majority, then it is unconstitutional. If for that reason, the president has decided to withhold his assent, then he is in order. As I said, this is just based on what I read.
With the existing laws and court delays, do you think the incoming government of a General Buhari can tackle corruption?
The general answer that I will first offer you is that, every government is at liberty to amend any laws, including the laws on corruption. The existing laws cannot be perfect. That is why the machinery is there to constantly review our laws. The Nigerian Law Reform Commission (NLRC) which until recently I was its chairman, is there to assist government through the office of the Attorney-General of the Federation (AGF) to address any of these areas that require reforms and collaborate with any committees of the National Assembly who have their own to propose. So, the president is at liberty to introduce new legislation or amend the existing legislation to strengthen the hands of government in tackling this endemic problem of corruption. Let me add that something very important has happened which will eliminate some of the abuses that retarded the judicial process in convicting persons that maybe be found guilty of corruption. That is the administration of Criminal Justice Bill which was passed by the Senate recently. It was passed by the House of Representatives over a year ago. I also hope they have been able to harmonise through the Conference Committee. Once that happens and the president assents to that bill, then it will go a long way to remove some of the obstacles that impede speedy administration of criminal justice in Nigeria. That bill tackles problems from arrest, keeping people in detention, extracting confessions, powers to grant bail and the issue of adjournments. It also tackles interlocutory applications that impede the wheels of justice. Up to plea bargaining, the NLFC had a bill. It was later incorporated into the administration of Criminal Justice Bill. Many people say plea bargaining is not good, but it has so many benefits. It helps to speed up trials and conclusion of criminal cases up to sentencing. It goes through the entire process of the criminal law process. Once that comes into being, a lot of the abuses we have been experiencing including the question you were going to ask about the abuse of plea bargain will be put to rest. With that in place, it will be easier for the incoming administration to tackle corruption.
What about the anti-corruption agencies? Do you think they should be reformed?
Yes. I am sure that you are aware that the ICPC and the EFCC have been crying over lack of funds. The issue of funding is key. Even if you put the most committed brains to man the agencies, if they do not have the tools, they cannot work. You need to provide them with the tools to deliver. While you look at the human personnel, you also need to provide them with the tools to do their work. Once you fight corruption, it fights back. Those fighting back have more resources to fight back.
Many people believe you were close to President Jonathan. He has been on the saddle since 2010. Looking back, what would you say the president has done right or wrong?
Well, I do not want to judge or assess Mr. President at this stage. I do not want to sit here and begin to pass judgment on him. As Vice President, I was one of the closest governors to him. In fact, I was the closest to him from the South-South. He even attended my mother’s burial in August 2007.
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